Hobo Ken

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Posts by Hobo Ken

• 
  42

  The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".

  i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.

  without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.

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  Hobo Ken

  >Password

  Lol

  Have you read the proper blog on this article on Death or obedience btw.?

  Matt.
• 
  42

  The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".

  i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.

  without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.

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  Hobo Ken

  >hopscotch

  The 1919 dogma is a claim without evidence which they would rather re-engineer to make the evidence based in a modern setting.

  You are right about JWs reaction when you bring up the past teachings...."it's all refined now so it doesn't matter".

  Switched on people will realize that doesn't wash and that Jesus would have been insane or blind to appoint them in 1919..

  >wobble

  Correct.Long live the www.

  >password.

  Lol I'll take that as a compliment. And interestingly there was no plagarism involved so........

  Also you are correct , do most jw's even care about the roots? No. It is what it is. Bigger things to worry about like you say.

  >wtwizard

  I reckon they've had their fingers burned too many times to go back to date setting, but they still need a mechanism to keep the bros. on high alert...You are right about the numbers being shady too. I reckon alot of the growth comes from family coming of age and developing countries that don't know any better.

  >Iknowall and diamondiiz

  Good points, and I agree that they have been mentioning it less and less. I mean if you turn up at someones door talking about the year 1914 they will think you are nuts (and they'd be right). Once you agree to a study you will learn the nuts and bolts in chapter tucked away in a mandatory book you have to study.

  >Narkissos

  The shelving of 1914 is a problem I've been mulling over for many years. I'm sure that the generation change was necessary because of the date rapidly receding into the past and that change was in 1995. It was becoming untenable to talk of a "Generation" surviving to see the end.

  I think it's more likely they will eventually re-classify it as just the end of the "gentile times" and perhaps claim that Jesus Just "turned his attention"

  to the earth in a figurative sense and that his kingdom must be a future event "I mean look at Daniel 2:44 it says the kingdom will bring all those kingdoms to nothing" it must be future.You can almost smell the newsprint of the 3 "exciting study articles" timed to arrive in the summer of 2013.

  H.K.
• 
  42

  The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".

  i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.

  without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  >journeyon

  Empty your pockets.
• 
  42

  The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".

  i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.

  without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  >creativehoney

  Lol you are probably right on both counts. Now I have a reason to study their BS. Expose them and get others out and stop people joining.

  I need a beer.....

  >snowbird.

  You think you are having a laugh when you say "I wonder why the risen master didn't use them to appoint the apostle Paul?"

  That exactly what they say in paragraph 9 of this same article "his appointment was confirmed by the Governing Body in Jerusalem".

  The phrase Governing Body does not even appear in the Bible!!!!!!!!!!

  I cannot believe they get to say whatever they want.

  >wobble.

  Spot on.

  They swallow, we spit.

  H.K.
• 
  42

  The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".

  i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.

  without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  My blog on this post is here.

  http://deathorobedience.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-light-on-wts-being-appointed.html

  H.K.
• 
  42

  The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

  by Hobo Ken in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".

  i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.

  without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  This study will set the tone for future-proofing the Watchtower Society Doctrine that their Governing Body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by Jesus in Matthew24.

  I thought as I read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.

  The first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.

  "while giving the composite sign of the last days Jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?"

  I believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it. WITHOUT MENTIONING WHEN THEY BECAME SUCH.

  They then say that Jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings. Again crucially no time frame is given for this event.

  As the article progresses the usual warnings and spiritual "food" is of course served.

  Look at paragraphs 6. under the heading " The slave appears"

  " it came into existence in 33c.e." They use a legitimate Bible event and claim that was Jesus "starting off" the "slave Class" in Pentecost.

  The stuff that's then discussed about who did the teaching is beside the point, the real question is do they have the modern right to BE THE TEACHERS?

  So how do they move through the gears and apply this ongoing "class" to themselves in modern times?

  Usually we would find a dogmatic statement like " Jesus appointed this faithful slave in 1919 after he arrived in kingdom power in 1914"

  It is nowhere to be seen!!!

  I firmly believe that since it is a provable fact that 1914 is being mentioned less and less in the WTS publications then it would follow that the year 1919 also will be devalued as the two dates are inextricably linked.

  This article would be the perfect place to reinforce the 1919 dogma to the Rank and file JW's in a private study article.

  Of course there are no scriptures that support the assertion that Jesus arrived in 1919 and appointed the WTS Governing Body or President to such a position, but since when did the Bible get in the way of a good WTS doctrine?

  The Governing Body is well aware of the weakness of their chronology which begins with the year 607 and ends with 1914.

  The book "gentile times reconsidered" delivers a fatal blow to the significance the wts attach to 607. They know this. They have the manuscripts.

  I firmly believe they are moving away from these dates and the claims associated with them. Instead they are using something altogether more tangible.

  Please look to paragraph 11 where they make the link between the opening statement in par. 1 and the claim that the "slave" "appeared" in 33ce.

  This paragraph states that "Jesus words clearly indicate that there would still be a faithful and discreet slave class living on earth at the time of the end"

  What words of Jesus? Matthew 24:45 " who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time?"

  Where in this verse which they quote from is Jesus referring to a "class"?

  Where does Jesus say they would be "living on earth at the time of the end"?

  These are suppositions that the WTS have to insert to validate the claims which are made in this paragraph.(11)

  "As a group this remnant has been appointed over all of Christs belongings here on earth."

  What would these belongings be?

  This is the most important point which is in my opinion hidden in the rest of the flannel this article contains.

  The "belongings" are the "kingdoms earthly subjects". Yes the 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses are proof that this slave has been appointed!!!

  The belongings are also "the material facilities used in preaching the good news" Yes all the Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls, Branches, Printing operations and the worldwide Headquarters in Brooklyn N.Y. are PROOF THAT THEY WERE APPOINTED!!!

  What more does an honest-hearted need by way of proof than that?

  We exist so therefore we are what we say we are. Classic circular WTS reasoning. Who can argue that there are NOT 7 million JW's around the world and all the of the "material facilities"?

  This is a far easier position to substantiate and maintain than the 1919 "appointment" considering it has no scriptural , historical and logical weight behind it. It is becoming almost laughable to mention the date of 1919 in relation to their claim of God-given authority considering we are a decade into th 21st century.

  I now think that this is the new "Proof" of their authority. The JW aren't going to be hard to convince , most of them cite these reasons as to why they believe it's "the truth" so why not base your authority on it as well? Makes sense.

  I asked my brother about the scriptural validity of 1919 and he said "well yes, it was around about then, but we don't want to be dogmatic about it"

  It is a bit late to say that , or is it?

  Matt.
• 
  216

  No One Should Be Made to Choose…..LIES from July 09 Awake

  by Hopscotch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?

  in the july 2009 awake p29:

  no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.

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  Hobo Ken

  I have read through the thread and I just noticed that no one has yet posted on paragraph 6's last sentence:-

  "since our creator wants us to search for truth ,it CANNOT be wrong to act on the evidence that we find even if that means CHANGING OUR RELIGION"

  I realise they will say that it's talking about people becoming jws and not the other way round. But I wonder if someone on the writing committe that knows the deal with the wts has deliberatley put this in. Look closely at the terminology :- the evidence that WE find!!! It is speaking to the reader yes, but usually it would read that one would find not "we".

  This is saying it is not wrong to act on what we find in relation to the start of the sentence, i.e. "the search for truth". Is it any co-incidence that JWs call their religion the "truth". I'm sure the writer of this article is using a careful semaphore here.

  What is the evidence regarding the wts?

  Is the writer aware of the evidence against them, and thus trying to shake things up?

  If you were in such a position ,which one of the publications would you be able to slip it in to with the least amount of checks?

  The Awake!

  Is the title of the mag just a coincidence?

  Thoughts?

  H.K.
• 
  216

  No One Should Be Made to Choose…..LIES from July 09 Awake

  by Hopscotch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?

  in the july 2009 awake p29:

  no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.

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  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  >hopscotch

  Thanks for the comments and thank you for flagging the article up in the first place.

  I share the view of some that this article will probably not cause a revolution in the wts and how the "friends" treat ex members, but I hope as you rightly point out in your post that the barrier might just take a battering with this one.

  It's a bigger one than they might expect. To the Governing Body ,we who have left ,ostensibly DO NOT EXIST. That however is their biggest mistake, they underestimate the force of the human spirit and will. They forget that the sense of injustice is one of the strongest emotions we can experience.

  They have obviously written this article in a mealy-mouthed attempt at fooling the public at large into thinking they are decent Christian folk with no extremes in their behaviour or doctrines. Nothing could be further from the truth.

  Thing is this is probably THE most emotive issue that affects ALL who are no longer jws , ACROSS THE BOARD no matter what you are doing with your life/beliefs. Sure they are not even thinking of it applying to ex-members who are "outside the city licking their own vomit", but that is their achilles , they don't think about us so haven't considered us when writing and approving this article.

  I hope that it seriously disturbs the sensibilities of those who still posess the ability to think for themselves within the wts.

  >suspicious minds

  Thanks again and the anger you feel is sharedd by me too. We can't miss the hypocrisy in their literature while some like my brother has never even registered that it's staring you in the face in the policies and publications.

  I'll let you know if I get anywhere.

  H.K.
• 
  216

  No One Should Be Made to Choose…..LIES from July 09 Awake

  by Hopscotch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?

  in the july 2009 awake p29:

  no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.

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  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  Rutheeker> thankyou.

  Colton> their double standards, lies and rank hypocrisy has been evident from day one.

  Dogon& others you are entitled to your views but please be a bit more sensitive to other's faith in the man Jesus. Also it's off topic.

  To get back to the topic , this Awake may have an impact or it may not.

  Either the statement that "no one should have to choose between family and their beliefs" is now official wts policy or it is not.

  Which is it to be?

  Either the witnesses accept this and act accordingly to everyone INCLUDING those jw family who have left or,

  they accept that it's not official wts policy and is in fact a very sick piece of public relations spin doctoring.

  I propose that evey ex jw on this forum contact their friends and family and form a similar letter to mine and see what happens.

  Outcome?

  Perhaps they get some contact they didn't have before or,

  perhaps they start to see how this organization really operates.

  There is not much stronger than the smell of BS mixed with hypocrisy.

  H.K.
• 
  216

  No One Should Be Made to Choose…..LIES from July 09 Awake

  by Hopscotch in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?

  in the july 2009 awake p29:

  no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.

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  3. 
• 

  Hobo Ken

  Thanks Boyzone! Lol for the ministry school vibe there.

  I don't really expect a reply but you never know eh? I will keep you posted with any developments.

  H.K.